Betty begins the interview .....

Well, my father's job... He was always in work and it was a job; it used to use a lot of acid. And during the war he dipped the buttons that went on the soldiers' uniforms. He had got the mixture ready and there's only he knew how to do it; and if ever he was away, the whole factory nearly had to close down 'cos they couldn't get the mixture right. I can remember this, and he wouldn't tell anyone how he did it. When he was away ill at one time they came and fetched him in the boss's car so that he would just do that and then leave them, but when he left a lot of years later he still didn't pass on how he mixed the acid. He could make a black penny come up like a gold sovereign, you know, because this is what he did.

My mother didn't work because she'd got four children, but she, well, she just worked with us she sewed and baked and was a very good cook. But father's pay for what he did, although he was a, you know ..., they depended on him. It was hard to keep going, I think, for my mother, from what I can remember. Although they say I was spoilt, because by the time I arrived my eldest sister had started to go out to work, you know when I was five, and so there was more money coming in the house then, but, as days went I suppose we were very.....,.

We always had a Sunday joint, always. We had always had different meal a good meal, and a good coal fire. You know, everything was top quality, we always.... Mother used to sew, make all our clothes... We were bathed, I remember a very, very happy childhood really, you know... but nobody had got any more so this how we remember it.

How did you heat your house in those days?

Coal fire.

Was that in every room?

Every room. Even the bedrooms had a little coal fire in, but they were only lit when somebody was ill and that was by a shovelful of coal off the main fire, being taken up the wooden stairs. [laughs] With the smoke filling all the, every ..., everybody was coughing. But that's a ... And also, that is how the boiler was started for washing. A shovelful of coal off that fire, that did everything, into the wash house.... used to call it a wash house... And it was a big boiler and that was filled with, by hand with, buckets of water from the main tap. But if it was frosty or frozen, mother had to thaw it. I mean she did it all with good grace, I mean nobody... It was terrible really. I don't know how we'd all be alive... My mother lived `til she was 92.

Really....

And my sister is already 92 and still going strong, so there we are. [laughs]

How did you cook in those days?

Well at first, she cooked on this range: a black range . And we had a spit. I don't know if you've ever heard of a spit.

Yeah...

And the joint used to stay on there. But when we weren't cooking on that you had what was called a dutch oven, which was sort of a tin thing with hooks on and the bacon used to be threaded on to these hooks and that was stood on a metal, a steel stool, in front of the bars on the fire; and that cooked the bacon. But later on we had a black, a jet black, cooking stove, gas, and that was very..... You know, we were getting on very well then. [laughs]

But the washing was always done by boiler for years, donkey's years, and that was a....., that lasted all day, the wash day did.

Was that once a week?

Once a week.... And that was soaking....., maiding in a tub with a maid.... Mother used to hang the washing, and then it was soaked, then it was blued, then it was boiled, in a boiler, then it was hooked out with a copper-stick (used to splash you) and put in to rinse. And then it used to be blued, with a blue bag, all this.... I don't know how she did it. And then starched, and then hung out to dry on a line in the garden......, lines of washing. I don't know how she did it all.

And then ironing used to take all day Tuesday. Everything was to a day: a day for washing, a day for ironing, a day for baking, you know; everything was done by a day. All the days smelled differently. Monday was washing day that smelt of soap suds, you know, and ironing was a nice day, 'cos it was ironing. And then perhaps she'd bake cakes that day as well ..... nice smell. [laughs]

When did you first get a washing machine?

I didn't get a washing machine, neither did my mother. But I got married when I was 20, and after the war......, the war broke out, and then after the war the first thing that my husband bought me was a washing machine; a little tiny Hoover, with a wringer on the top which was electric. And the people that lived by me came to see it.... to look at it. People came to see things...... I had that, and a refrigerator. And that was wonderful really, that was real....

How keep food before your refrigerator?

Pardon?

How did you keep food before you had a fridge?

In a larder, you know, the coldest place in..... We always had a brick slab, a slab in the larder, and you put it on the...... Food went off, you know. You couldn't keep food really. Well you shopped every day....

Well, you didn't have to shop every day, because, although people weren't wealthy, (we had a car because my husband had to have one for work) but the grocer and the butcher called every day. Well, the grocer came twice a week and then the...... Your stuff would be delivered in a brown paper parcel, not a box, but done up with string, beautifully done up. And that was your grocery and...... You'd sit by the fire giving the order. A the same with the butcher. He came every day, the butcher's boy, and you just ordered from one day to... But you always had a good butcher, you see. You didn't go from shop to shop..... It was your mother's butcher usually, and you knew you were going to get good meat anyway. He just used to bring it daily. So we did have a lot of difficulties, but we don't have the difficulties that the girls have today, when they're married and try and get shopping. We had ease of shopping.

Yeah.....

You know, you sat down and ordered. So, I mean, it was quite.... You used to go in Friday night to pay the bills, or if you didn't, you could pay the grocer, or the butcher's. But we liked to pay the butcher himself not the boy.

Yeah.....

But you know, everything was...., the bakery was delivered, and then the green grocery. You grew a lot yourself, in your garden, but, even that, a horse and cart came round with a local greengrocer's food on. And a bit of fish covered in blue bottles used to come round, [laughs] which I never bought, but, I mean, everything was brought to your door, I mean it was... We had more leisure, those days, than they do now with their cars, I mean, I think these cars and these driving places would have killed me.

Was it always your mother who did everything in the house? All the housework and cooking and everything?

Pardon?

Was it always your mother who did everything in the house?

Oh yes, always, father never did anything.

Didn't do anything?

No no, he would sit, and I remember this, this is quite true, (mind you I've got a husband like it) he would sit, and his, whatever, meal would be on the table, and if she did go out, perhaps to get a bit of washing in, he would knock the window and point to the teapot. That meant he wanted another cup of tea! True! And she used to come in and pour him one. I'd have poured it over his head! [laughs]

Did you help with the housework?

No, I didn't, no, because I was the youngest I didn't do anything. My sister and I was spoilt, so that was that, But my sister had the days of doing the bedrooms, and that, and my brothers did the errands, but I, happily, I just played. I think, I was lucky.

What sort of lighting did you used to have?

Gas. At first we had a lamp that was lowered down from the ceiling, an oil lamp, brassy looking big thing, and it used to come down. And when you lit it went pop, you know, and then drew a...... But then, a bit later on, we had gas put in and that was a sort of a rod from the ceiling with a...., they used to call them mantles, I don't know whether you know anything about...

What did they look like?

Mantle [spells]"M A N T L E", and you could either have one that went up or one that went down, and you had to be very careful changing those. If you broke one I think it was tuppence, you know. It was a lot of money. But that did the whole of the lighting, in that...., a greenish yellow light, horrible. Well everything in those days was brown anyway, the furniture was brown, the walls were brown because of the fire smoking and father smoking. Everything was brown, everything, there was no colour anywhere.

Do you remember when you got electricity in your house?

Yes, we moved from one house to another and I hated it. We had electric lights, but I loved my first house because it had got...... There were all...., there was 6 houses in a row, and you could go in any one of them if your mother wasn't in. You were always welcomed in; you know you could always go somewhere and they would look after; there was somebody there. But then we went into a more sedate road. Cold it was really, I suppose, but I didn't realise then, and they kept themselves to themselves, and we had electric light but I never did like that move at all, I hated it. Got to be about 12 then.

Yeah...

But didn't like it, no. And I had to go to school on the tram then, because it was further away. It was harder living there, it wasn't the friendly, nice old, well it was oldy worldy I suppose then, no, didn't like that move.

When did you first get a vacuum cleaner?

A what?

A vacuum cleaner.

Mother never had one, she only had my leaves off. She had a carpet sweeper, a Ewbank, that used to litter all the stuff every so often, the fluff....., in 19...., I had a carpet sweeper a U Bank -1939 I think, I had a vacuum cleaner, or Hoover, and it was very good.

Did it make your life easier?

Oh yes, yes much easier, except that I hated doing stairs, loathed it, always hated doing stairs. That's why I moved to a bungalow. [laughs]

What did you do for entertainment in the evenings, before television and radio?

Well, when we were young, we always....., we had a piano, at my mother's house, and we learnt to play the piano, my sister and I. They played cards, and we played games and that, because we had this parlor, front room kind of thing, and then we read a lot. We had some nice books and we didn't have the radio until I was about 12, but we....., I think we used to go to bed at 9, everybody did, no point in staying, nothing else to do and ..... But oh, Father had a beautiful gramophone with a big brass horn. He liked opera, and he used to buy lovely records. We had nice musical evenings.

Yeah...

I had a cousin who could sing, and he used to come, and my sister could sing (I used to be terrible) [laughs] but we used to have some nice......, I see now on television, I think. Oh I used to live like that, you know, quite nice; it was quite nice really. Mother used to be very proud of us. We could do more things than the kids can today. I mean, we all knew how to play a musical instrument; we knew all the parlor games and that....

When did you first get a TV?

Not while I was at home. We were married. I'd been married about 4 years before we had a television and then.... That was a joke because we went to the cinema, and when we came out.... (We went to the Odeon, if I remember, it was to see Diana Durbin or something, and we went to this lovely.... it's still there, our cinema is in Sutton; it's about the only one left I think.) But we went to there, and we went into the music shop, and they'd got televisions in and the one..... we brought one home with us. He'd got some money on him, and we bought this television. (Or a cheque I don't know...) and it was a Console.

It was a 9 inch screen, [laughs] and we brought it home, and it was going to be Christmas, yes that was right, we had it for Christmas. We bought it on the speck like that, because we couldn't wait, and we brought it home. And of course he couldn't tune it in, driving us mad it was, squiggled everywhere. Anyway, finally he tuned it in and it was a lovely little picture, but it was very tiny, and we'd got a through-room in those days, it looked like a snap shot you see, so we all had to sit right by.

But then after Christmas we went out, and they were selling things like magnifiers, which was a magnifying glass, huge thing on a stand (you can't believe this but it's true) and this was stood in front of our nine inch television (which was like that kind of thing) and it enlarged the picture. So, we'd got then an enlarged picture through it, looked like looking through a fish tank at the picture, but anyway we'd got that. Then one day we came in and there was a smell of burning, and we'd moved this thing this magnifier and it had burned a hole in our leather chairs! The sun had. It could've set us on fire actually. So that wasn't very successful, but we kept that set for a long, long time. We were about the only ones for ages that had a television set.

Did people come around to your house to watch it?

Yes, yes, yes they came to see the Queen when the Queen was coronated: the young Queen. 'Cos she's been on the throne quite a long time hasn't she?

Yeah...

Yeah, I think it was to there....

And when did you get a radio?

Oh a radio we didn't get until I was about 11, and then I had the job...., I can't believe it but this is..... I had to go and fetch a battery and an eliminator, I remember that word, to run this set, and that.... Wasn't electric you see, it was..., Well I suppose you must have plugged it in, but we had to have a battery thing and an eliminator, and that brought the radio. We loved that. But my two brothers then fitted up an extension in the lounge where they both could play instruments. One'd get drums and what not (we used to have a band then) with this microphone, he...., they'd fixed it up very good. But it was all very.... Now it would be antiquated, but then it was very modern, you see, very lucky. [laughs]

Did you used to work, when you were married, or was it your husband?

No, I never worked when I was married. I had my son in 1939 and you didn't go to work, you didn't leave your baby, well I wouldn't have left mine anyway. So for 5 years anyway I was at home, and then afterwards, no....., well I.... You couldn't because he'd got to come home, you didn't....., well I didn't, and I was never left. We didn't leave our children, no matter if we hadn't got a lot of money, you looked after your..... I only had one, but I mean, I was always there when he came in, and my mother was always there when I went in. We were brought up in a family you see, we didn't have any lonely days.

What did your husband do?

My husband was an insurance broker. He did a lot, anything, for insurance.... He was a fireman during the war. He was put in the tank corps, but he had a hernia, so they put him on light relief. He was to go to the tanks, but they put him on fire service, light relief. He was at Coventry and London, I never saw him. I had a terrible war.

How did he travel to work?

He always had a car.

Did he?

Mmm

You had your own car?

Always. He had a car when I met him, and my brother also had a car. I used to get thruppence for cleaning it. Somehow though, we always managed a car along in the family somewhere or other. [laughs] They weren't very dear; you could buy them second-hand.

How about telephone, how did you...?

Never had a telephone until I was married. My husband did, their family did, but I didn't, no, no we never had one.

How did you communicate with friends and family? Or did you live close by?

Well they just lived by you then.

Did they?

Everybody lived, your relations, all your aunties and uncles lived by you, everybody lived by everybody else. It was much simpler than today. [laughs] Yeah, you all lived, you know, sort of a.... You knew everyone.

When you got a telephone did you use it for, social calls?

Don't talk about the phone. It was absolutely dreadful. I still don't like to talk about it. [laughs] It always causes a bit of trouble.

Right, OK. Did you have any particular technology that helped you with business? Did your husband, need a phone or anything like that?

I helped my husband?

No, how did your husband use technology at work?

Well he......, mostly by...., in his head really, because, my husband now... (he has been retired longer than he worked) he started his job, in collecting insurance, doing house insurance, fire insurance. During the war, of course he was called up, so the lady next door used to collect his money on a bike. And then he used to write.... A lot of people used to send it in by post and he kept a book going.

Then after the war he got a car and he gathered it all up, and then, he worked..., he still kept that job but he.... He was very good at it. The whole of his family worked on insurance. His father was an insurance manager, so was his uncle; both his brothers were in it. They were a business family. His mother had businesses and they were that kind of family, you see, that he liked insurance, really good at it, so he always stayed on insurance, and I never...

If he was ill, I used to go and help him, you know, or go and do some calls for him. I could help out like that, but he did it mostly himself. Then he retired when he was 60; now he's 90 in May. So he started when he was ..., I forget, but anyway, he's collected his pension as long as he worked, which is very good. [laughs]

Did you ever get a microwave?

Yes.

How long ago was that?

I had one about 5 years ago.

Do you find it easier now?

Well, I'm afraid I'm like everyone else. It makes nice porridge...... I keep it for storing things mostly. But it does do nice jacket potatoes..... Well it doesn't do nice jacket potatoes, they're better done in the oven, but it does quick jacket potatoes, if you want something quick.

Everything's much quicker.

And if you want some quick, it does make nice porridge, actually, [laughs] so they are useful. I don't use it for a lot of other things, no.

Did you get a freezer and, you know, before that did you ....?

Yes, well I had a freezer a long time ago. In the early days I had a freezer, they were enormous great chest things; you used to keep them in the garage. I mean, they were enormous things. I mean you could put a cow in there almost. You really used to fill it with meat, terrible really when I think of it, but you used to store.... You know, you'd buy a lamb and you'd buy half a cow, you really would store all that meat.

And before that, everything was fresh, you didn't...?

Yes, yeah. We used to eat , still do eat, a bit of meat. But we were brought up on meat, you know. In those days there weren't many people brought up on vegetables. Well we used to have vegetables but meat was your..., that was your dinner every day. I mean, it isn't now is it? No, do you ever eat meat?

Yeah, quite a lot.

I mean some families do and some don't. When I think about it..., I mean we used to eat rabbits, deer and everything. I couldn't now mind you, I daren't think about it because I wouldn't eat it, but we still do have meat dinners because we've never been pasta people. I like pasta but my husband doesn't, and I can't be bothered to cook two kinds of food, or to cook one...

What sort of plumbing did you have? How did you wash? And how did you go to the toilet?

Well, when I was 12, we had a kind of bathroom, but no hot water in it, don't ask me why. Up until then it was a kettle on the fire and another one on the gas cooker, tin bath (this is true, like everybody had) that was kept outside on the mangle and brought in Friday nights. I think the eldest had the first bath, and I was the youngest so I used to get the last. [laughs] But then you all sat in front of the fire, you know, drying off. Mother used to dry you, and then the bath emptied down the yard kind of thing. It was a ritual, Friday night. You had a bath Friday night.

Really.....

You didn't have another one, but if we...... I don't remember it being smelly or anything like that, you know. There were no body odour things, but I can't remember.... I would've remembered if the place had smelt but it did not. Nobody did, it smelt a lot of soap, in the house all over, but never...., no, I never smelt anyone being sweaty, or anything like I think I would now, really, when you think..... Mind you, we used to wash; we had proper washes every day.

Yeah, just a bath or something...

Yeah, what you couldn't do with one bowl of water was amazing, you know, but... no...

Was the toilet outside?

Pardon?

Was the toilet outside?

Yes, yes, it was in the yard actually that one. Frightened me to death [laughs] 'Been constipated ever since!

When did that change... when did you...?

.....But that was water, I mean, thank God, I mean because some of the people didn't have a water closet, but we did have a water closet, yes.

When did you get a proper bathroom in your house?

When I was about thir...., fourteen I think, yes. At our next house, that was a very modern house....... As I got on, I liked them less, because I got older..... You see all the childhood had gone.

But yes, we had a quite a big bathroom, then, which was wonderful because that was heated by a kitchen range, and the kitchen range cooked everything as well. Mother'd always got a rice pudding in or a stew in the oven. It always smelt of cooking when you went in, because she wouldn't waste her coal fire, it had to be doing something all the time, and that heated all the water. An Eagle range I think it was, it was quite a nice ring, like they have today, they're called um... I can't think, but anyway quite a good range. Mother loved her range. She never had it out. A lot of people had them out, and had, you know, an ordinary grange put in, but she wouldn't have it taken away, although she moved to a flat in her later years. But I mean, she loved being in the house with it. She sat by it, opened the oven door, it was just her, you know, to sit like that.

Yeah...

All very homely. [laughs] The man used to come, and I don't know why but it was interesting to us, in the winter to light the lamps. He used to come about half past three with a long pole and he used to walk up the road, and we used to follow him putting his pole up, lighting the gas lamps. Now why I remember that I don't know! But I can, have you ever heard of the lamp lighter?

Yeah. I've seen them.

You did? And also at the end of our road the tram turners was, running around clipping the tram thing in..... I can remember them doing that, funny how... Well mind you they do that still in Blackpool don't they?

Yeah. Was it mostly trams for transport? You didn't have...

Always trams.

Did you go on buses at all?

I think there was one service called the 'Outer Circle', but it was all trams. Occasionally , my auntie had a car, and actually my auntie came from Swanage to see us once in this car. Funny, I often wonder if she was here. She had a car with like a pram top, you know, a canvas top, that you could take down. And of course she could drive it as well, which was very...., you know, people hadn't seen a woman driving a car! And it was mother's sister, so that was very..... When she came there was.... A lot of children used to gather to see this lady get out of the car. It's all mad really! [laughs]

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